Lancelot alpha 2 screenshots
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Vijay Patil asked me to explain the application browsing component, so here it is:
At first, you get a panel with two columns – Favourites on the left, and application categories on the right.
When you choose a category, the Favourites column is replaced by the application categories, and the currently selected category is opened in the right column. (can anyone guess what is the ratio between left and right columns here, but without looking at the code?) As you can see, you get a breadcrumb bar above the list.
Now, there are two options for ‘what should happen when a subcategory is chosen’. One would be to hide the left column again like in the previous step, and the other is just to shrink the leftmost column like in the screenshot:
Later (the one in the screenshot) way is uglier, but more useful (for me, that is). Since I can not make up my mind about it, it will be configurable.
What about this “hype” that everyone have to stay in one window? Why not expand the menus to the right just like the good old K-Menu?
Comment by pinky — 30 July 2008 @ 09:03
At the fear of getting tarred with the troll brush, I’m in agreement with Pinky. The old style is the best way to preserve and use the spatial awareness of the brain that these new menu’s seem to ignore.
Just my point of view.
Comment by and the brain — 30 July 2008 @ 09:18
I’ll take a guess, If you ask in that special way it’s probably 1 + b/a, or in other words the golden ratio?
Comment by Andre — 30 July 2008 @ 09:46
Staying in one window, as you have elegantly put it, was recommended by usability guys.
And, for old-school menu, you have the “Classic menu” available.
Comment by Ivan Čukić — 30 July 2008 @ 09:50
Ding, ding, ding, ding, and we have a winner! It was fast
Comment by Ivan Čukić — 30 July 2008 @ 09:52
>And, for old-school menu, you have the “Classic menu” available.
and for the “new-school menu” i have the default menu of KDE4. *SCNR*
Seriously: I like some ideas from the KDE4-default menu and i like the “start-window” of Lancelot. For me i consider the old-school menu as to “simple”. For me Lancelot could be the right mixing between old school and default menu if it would just behaive like the old school menu to open subcategories. I don’t care about “usability experts” for me this “everyone is in one window” is just painful.
As you wrote in your blog you have already two options to show the categories maybe you could add a third one in the future?
By the way, i’m really interested in this usability study and their arguments for the “everyone in a window” approach. Do you have a link to it?
Comment by pinky — 30 July 2008 @ 11:06
Have you decided on the default setting regarding subcategories? If not (yet), I would suggest option 1, since:
1) it looks better
2) it’s the behaviour expected by the user, after the same thing happened when choosing a category
For the rest: great job. I especially like the breadcrumb navigation on top.
Comment by Sokraates — 30 July 2008 @ 12:16
I agree with you. The option you prefer is more practical and uglier. But when I have to choose between something ugly and practical or something pretty but impractical, I always choose the former.
Another option would be to do what the “Tasty menu” does: Put the application in subcategories below each entry. That way you get only 2 columns, though the second one grows large (but I still prefer to scroll than to click back and forth all the time).
BTW, can you scroll in Lancelot? I don’t see scroll bars even if the lists don’t fit in the window…
Ah, another option: Make the window wider so that it can contain 3 columns. I hope the “usability” guys have nothing against making the window bigger.
Comment by Luis — 30 July 2008 @ 12:20
Well, these two options differ from one another in one line of code, and making a menus would be much much more. Maybe one day, but I’m not promising anything
For links, I can not provide you any resources. I did not participate in the discussions when the first ‘ditch kmenu’ ideas appeared.
@Sokraates
Nothing is decided yet, so any pro or con is welcome. Thanks
@Luis
Thanks for reminding me. I haven’t remade the scroll buttons while converting L to WoC, and later just forgot about it. So, the only way to scroll (at the moment) is to use the mouse scroll wheel
As for 3 columns, I have to say that it will not be done. If you just want al larger window, resize it, but adding another column would make L too cluttered.
Comment by Ivan Čukić — 30 July 2008 @ 13:19
Thanks a lot Ivan for explaining it with screenshots. One question:
These actions will happen on hover or on click? Or both? (I guess on-click).
Comment by Vijay Patil — 30 July 2008 @ 16:28
You’re welcome. You’ll be able to choose whether you want to click, or to enable the extender-hover paradigm. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, browse through earlier Lancelot-related posts here. Cheerio!
Comment by Ivan Čukić — 30 July 2008 @ 16:54
Switch the log out button with the Switch user button. It’s easier to click it in the right corner
Comment by Cosmin — 30 July 2008 @ 17:17
I’m back in agreement with Pinky in that the old style applications menu with all the added goodness of Lancelot (especially contact list) would be the ideal situation.
I have threatened twice before to create this dream menu (under different pseudonyms) that I have conducted my own usability studies (just with me in my own mind, but I’m not that different than any other average Joe you might meet really) so this time I may just come good and trying to convince those who have already created there idea of what is best.
Incidentally the usability studies that Ivan is referring to is the OpenSuse ones done for the slab menu included in their distribution. In my mind the studies albeit backed up by statistical evidence were biased by the subjects willingness to please and agree that new is better without considering the situation fully.
Comment by and the brain — 30 July 2008 @ 17:51
I would suggest using just the application icons without text or the arrows for the left side once you get to the third level selection. it seems like the obvious thing to do to me. Also I would suggest you work on spacing and how things are laid out some. The \Favorites\ and \Applications\ labels at the top should probably be a different size or style(bold, italic, colorful, etc) from the other text so that its more visible and separate from the launchers. I appreciate your work and hope my comments helped.
Comment by Supreme1012 — 30 July 2008 @ 18:15
I can’t compile lancelot. Apparently something is wrong in Widget.cpp file!
[ 4%] Building CXX object libs/lancelot/CMakeFiles/lancelot.dir/widgets/Widget.o
/home/armin/Download/kde-source/lancelot/libs/lancelot/widgets/Widget.cpp: In member function ‘void Lancelot::Widget::paintBackground(QPainter*, const QString&)’:
/home/armin/Download/kde-source/lancelot/libs/lancelot/widgets/Widget.cpp:187: error: no matching function for call to ‘Plasma::PanelSvg::paintPanel(QPainter*&)’
/usr/include/kde4/plasma/panelsvg.h:196: note: candidates are: void Plasma::PanelSvg::paintPanel(QPainter*, const QRectF&, const QPointF&)
make[2]: *** [libs/lancelot/CMakeFiles/lancelot.dir/widgets/Widget.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [libs/lancelot/CMakeFiles/lancelot.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
Comment by fengshaun — 30 July 2008 @ 18:19
I’ll take it under consideration (aka, I put it in TODO file for later)
@brain
It is not only Slab (and Kickoff) -related studies. As I’ve already mentioned, I don’t like the results of that usability projects (the main reason behind making L), but somehow, new users find Kickoff very satisfying.
@Supreme1012
The different appearance of mentioned buttons can be achieved through themes.
@fengshaun
I’m currently running the 837927 revision of KDE, so L is built upon that at the moment.
Comment by Ivan Čukić — 30 July 2008 @ 21:33
As for “usability experts”:
my university had a chair for these so called “experts”, and one of the most hilarious things I’ve ever seen was their website. Apparently some “experts” found out that a navigational menu on the right side of the content was, usability-wise, better than the left sided approach used, well… everywhere else. So that chair’s homepage had their navigation on the right side. That wouldn’t have been so bad by itself, of course, but in the end, this lead to the necessity to scroll to the right to get to the navigational menu (and no, my screen resolution was not too small at that time) Since then, I’m somewhat reluctant to believe in recommendations of usability people… To put it another way: I also prefer the old way of multiple windows, and I don’t give a damn about what “usability experts” say about it. And I know that the design of kickoff was influenced by usability studies, but I still find it completely unusable. Having to jump forward and back in the menu structure by clicking on some areas hinders effective usage of the menu, in my opinion. All I can say is, it really slows me down when trying to find an application which I’m not sure of in which category it resides. I must really side with pinky in this regard
The first screenshot of Lancelot reminded me a lot of Windows XP, as “Favorites to the left, Menu to the right” is exactly what XP has, and it’s not that bad. But they don’t restrict the menu to a single window, and I feel this is a big plus, at least when I think about the way I use the menu…
But I’m really curious about Lancelot. It looks like it is a promising mix between the old style KDE menu and some new ideas. And as I find 4.0′s “classical” menu lacking some of the old KDE3′s features (haven’t tried 4.1 yet, so don’t flame me if it now has all the old features again), Lancelot looks really promising. And of course, there is “Tasty Menu”, too, which I also think has a very nice concept that Lancelot could borrow from.
In the end, KDE4 could have a hell of a lot of different ways to start applications, and hopefully there will be a way that would fit the way every single one of us would like to start applications, as KDE is all about choice and configurability
Oh, and I agree that showing only the icons of previous categories is probably increasing usability, as it leaves more room for the current level of menu entries. Maybe one could change the background color of the menu items to indicate those that lead to the current submenu. But the breadcrum bar is also a nice way of navigationg the menu.
Comment by mrX — 30 July 2008 @ 21:57
I agree with mrX, people with laptop touchpads know how frustrating it is to make a click… hovering is easier…
Comment by Subhash — 31 July 2008 @ 03:38
XP’s menu (as far as I see from the screenshots) doesn’t have applications on the right, but in a separate menu. And it has Locations and a couple of other stuff in the right one.
@all
)
Ok, for all comments regarding a separate windows menu system, a couple of con reasons not including opinions of usability people:
- I don’t like it (the main reason
- Don’t know whether the next level will open left or right (depending on the length of items in the newly opened submenu)
- Not synoptic. A large list of items, however sorted, can not be comprehended in a glance.
- And, did I mention that I don’t like it?
Concerning the Tasty Menu, I’ve already mentioned that some things in L are inspired by it. Essentially, the application browsing is similar, only with compressing the menu to two columns (I don’t think that Favourite applications list is needed when browsing through applications – if the app you’re looking for is in Favourites, you wont search it through the tree)
Comment by Ivan Čukić — 31 July 2008 @ 07:10
If no use pinky idea, think about use expand window on mouse over category.
No need uggly more windows, simple expand
I hate clicks, mouse over is more produtive.
Sorry for bad english.
Comment by Big Bruno — 31 July 2008 @ 08:12
What clicks? There will be no clicks if you don’t want to click. (read the previous posts about no-click interface)
Comment by Ivan Čukić — 31 July 2008 @ 08:16