Comments on: Lancelot alpha 2 screenshots

By: Ivan Čukić

Ivan Čukić — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:16:27 +0000

Big Bruno What clicks? There will be no clicks if you don't want to click. (read the previous posts about no-click interface)

By: Big Bruno

Big Bruno — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:12:54 +0000

If no use pinky idea, think about use expand window on mouse over category.

No need uggly more windows, simple expand

I hate clicks, mouse over is more produtive.

Sorry for bad english.

By: Ivan Čukić

Ivan Čukić — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:10:46 +0000

@mrX
XP’s menu (as far as I see from the screenshots) doesn’t have applications on the right, but in a separate menu. And it has Locations and a couple of other stuff in the right one.

@all
Ok, for all comments regarding a separate windows menu system, a couple of con reasons not including opinions of usability people:
- I don’t like it (the main reason )
- Don’t know whether the next level will open left or right (depending on the length of items in the newly opened submenu)
- Not synoptic. A large list of items, however sorted, can not be comprehended in a glance.
- And, did I mention that I don’t like it?

Concerning the Tasty Menu, I’ve already mentioned that some things in L are inspired by it. Essentially, the application browsing is similar, only with compressing the menu to two columns (I don’t think that Favourite applications list is needed when browsing through applications – if the app you’re looking for is in Favourites, you wont search it through the tree)

By: Subhash

Subhash — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:38:52 +0000

I agree with mrX, people with laptop touchpads know how frustrating it is to make a click… hovering is easier…

By: mrX

mrX — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:57:37 +0000

As for “usability experts”:
my university had a chair for these so called “experts”, and one of the most hilarious things I’ve ever seen was their website. Apparently some “experts” found out that a navigational menu on the right side of the content was, usability-wise, better than the left sided approach used, well… everywhere else. So that chair’s homepage had their navigation on the right side. That wouldn’t have been so bad by itself, of course, but in the end, this lead to the necessity to scroll to the right to get to the navigational menu (and no, my screen resolution was not too small at that time) Since then, I’m somewhat reluctant to believe in recommendations of usability people… To put it another way: I also prefer the old way of multiple windows, and I don’t give a damn about what “usability experts” say about it. And I know that the design of kickoff was influenced by usability studies, but I still find it completely unusable. Having to jump forward and back in the menu structure by clicking on some areas hinders effective usage of the menu, in my opinion. All I can say is, it really slows me down when trying to find an application which I’m not sure of in which category it resides. I must really side with pinky in this regard

The first screenshot of Lancelot reminded me a lot of Windows XP, as “Favorites to the left, Menu to the right” is exactly what XP has, and it’s not that bad. But they don’t restrict the menu to a single window, and I feel this is a big plus, at least when I think about the way I use the menu…

But I’m really curious about Lancelot. It looks like it is a promising mix between the old style KDE menu and some new ideas. And as I find 4.0′s “classical” menu lacking some of the old KDE3′s features (haven’t tried 4.1 yet, so don’t flame me if it now has all the old features again), Lancelot looks really promising. And of course, there is “Tasty Menu”, too, which I also think has a very nice concept that Lancelot could borrow from.

In the end, KDE4 could have a hell of a lot of different ways to start applications, and hopefully there will be a way that would fit the way every single one of us would like to start applications, as KDE is all about choice and configurability

Oh, and I agree that showing only the icons of previous categories is probably increasing usability, as it leaves more room for the current level of menu entries. Maybe one could change the background color of the menu items to indicate those that lead to the current submenu. But the breadcrum bar is also a nice way of navigationg the menu.

By: Ivan Čukić

Ivan Čukić — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:33:47 +0000

@Cosmin I'll take it under consideration (aka, I put it in TODO file for later) @brain It is not only Slab (and Kickoff) -related studies. As I've already mentioned, I don't like the results of that usability projects (the main reason behind making L), but somehow, new users find Kickoff very satisfying. @Supreme1012 The different appearance of mentioned buttons can be achieved through themes. @fengshaun I'm currently running the 837927 revision of KDE, so L is built upon that at the moment.

By: fengshaun

fengshaun — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:19:34 +0000

I can’t compile lancelot. Apparently something is wrong in Widget.cpp file!

[ 4%] Building CXX object libs/lancelot/CMakeFiles/lancelot.dir/widgets/Widget.o
/home/armin/Download/kde-source/lancelot/libs/lancelot/widgets/Widget.cpp: In member function ‘void Lancelot::Widget::paintBackground(QPainter*, const QString&)’:
/home/armin/Download/kde-source/lancelot/libs/lancelot/widgets/Widget.cpp:187: error: no matching function for call to ‘Plasma::PanelSvg::paintPanel(QPainter*&)’
/usr/include/kde4/plasma/panelsvg.h:196: note: candidates are: void Plasma::PanelSvg::paintPanel(QPainter*, const QRectF&, const QPointF&)
make[2]: *** [libs/lancelot/CMakeFiles/lancelot.dir/widgets/Widget.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [libs/lancelot/CMakeFiles/lancelot.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2

By: Supreme1012

Supreme1012 — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:15:13 +0000

I would suggest using just the application icons without text or the arrows for the left side once you get to the third level selection. it seems like the obvious thing to do to me. Also I would suggest you work on spacing and how things are laid out some. The \Favorites\ and \Applications\ labels at the top should probably be a different size or style(bold, italic, colorful, etc) from the other text so that its more visible and separate from the launchers. I appreciate your work and hope my comments helped.

By: and the brain

and the brain — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:51:37 +0000

I’m back in agreement with Pinky in that the old style applications menu with all the added goodness of Lancelot (especially contact list) would be the ideal situation.

I have threatened twice before to create this dream menu (under different pseudonyms) that I have conducted my own usability studies (just with me in my own mind, but I’m not that different than any other average Joe you might meet really) so this time I may just come good and trying to convince those who have already created there idea of what is best.

Incidentally the usability studies that Ivan is referring to is the OpenSuse ones done for the slab menu included in their distribution. In my mind the studies albeit backed up by statistical evidence were biased by the subjects willingness to please and agree that new is better without considering the situation fully.

By: Cosmin

Cosmin — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:17:27 +0000

Switch the log out button with the Switch user button. It’s easier to click it in the right corner