Comments on: KOffice needs you, and we need KOffice! http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/ Free Software Developer and Enthusiast Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:28:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Pubudu Kodikara http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-10552 Pubudu Kodikara Sun, 29 Nov 2009 04:27:23 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-10552 K Ofiice had helped us a lot, so its time for payback! K Ofiice had helped us a lot, so its time for payback!

]]> By: the_madman http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-8414 the_madman Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:51:04 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-8414 I've always looked at the KDE re-write when it comes to innovation and have used it as my benchmark consistently: KDE and KOffice can get away with new and intuitive concepts because they've written the applications from the ground up, for TODAY's needs and not the needs of users several years ago. Dumping more and more code onto (koffice/kde/whatever) would have just made it large, slow, harder to fix and harder to innovate. I'm glad someone recognized this at all, and now KDE is my desktop of choice because of it. I'd also like to move away from OOo post-haste... I’ve always looked at the KDE re-write when it comes to innovation and have used it as my benchmark consistently: KDE and KOffice can get away with new and intuitive concepts because they’ve written the applications from the ground up, for TODAY’s needs and not the needs of users several years ago. Dumping more and more code onto (koffice/kde/whatever) would have just made it large, slow, harder to fix and harder to innovate. I’m glad someone recognized this at all, and now KDE is my desktop of choice because of it.

I’d also like to move away from OOo post-haste…

]]> By: Purple-Bobby http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-8393 Purple-Bobby Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:10:26 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-8393 The problem MS have, is they wish to keep the 1500 functions that need a tool bar button - at 16 by 16 pixels that is 800 pixels by 480, rather than drop the little used functions. They also have internal clients (in marketing) that want the UI to be not too different than before, hence buttons at the top, the same type of functions in Word and Excel are described and used differently. The design is back-to-front: they have an application with 1500+ defined functions, and they slap an UI on it. Computers are getting more powerful, but proportionally less of that power is helping the user get the job done compared to engaging the user in needless work and entertainment. What Ooo seem to have done wrong, was ask programmers how to fix their UI. If you view the presentation on the development of the ribbon interface, then it seems to make perfect sense (and it is right for what MS are trying to do), but it misses the point - making a better word-processor than Word, by making it faster for a user to complete a document, by using the computers power to reduce the amount UI interaction needed to complete the job - it is not about finding the button to do the function, it is making that function unnecessary. The problem MS have, is they wish to keep the 1500 functions that need a tool bar button – at 16 by 16 pixels that is 800 pixels by 480, rather than drop the little used functions. They also have internal clients (in marketing) that want the UI to be not too different than before, hence buttons at the top, the same type of functions in Word and Excel are described and used differently.
The design is back-to-front: they have an application with 1500+ defined functions, and they slap an UI on it.

Computers are getting more powerful, but proportionally less of that power is helping the user get the job done compared to engaging the user in needless work and entertainment.

What Ooo seem to have done wrong, was ask programmers how to fix their UI. If you view the presentation on the development of the ribbon interface, then it seems to make perfect sense (and it is right for what MS are trying to do), but it misses the point – making a better word-processor than Word, by making it faster for a user to complete a document, by using the computers power to reduce the amount UI interaction needed to complete the job – it is not about finding the button to do the function, it is making that function unnecessary.

]]> By: Michael "I don't hate MS" Howell http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-8390 Michael "I don't hate MS" Howell Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:28:26 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-8390 I don't hate the new UI because it came from MS. I hate the new UI because I hate the new UI. Really. I'll probably move to KOffice thanks to them. I don’t hate the new UI because it came from MS. I hate the new UI because I hate the new UI. Really.

I’ll probably move to KOffice thanks to them.

]]> By: jscurtu http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-8387 jscurtu Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:19:56 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-8387 OMG... looks like OpenOffice is just not able to be innovative... I remember the announcement from OOo about a new UI that was planned, back then I was excited about it, but looking at this now... I not that sure about it... We will see when its done.. OMG… looks like OpenOffice is just not able to be innovative… I remember the announcement from OOo about a new UI that was planned, back then I was excited about it, but looking at this now… I not that sure about it… We will see when its done..

]]> By: Ivan Čukić http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-8386 Ivan Čukić Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:00:01 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-8386 @<a href="#comment-8380" rel="nofollow">Erlend</a>: Looks really don't enter into it. It takes too much of the workspace. And the /discoverability/ in this case is going to inspire the users to produce inconsistent documents by using the styles even less than they used to do before. When editing a document, the focus should always be on the document and its contents, later on its looks, and never on the program in which you work. The ribbon is perfect for the 'lets play with this thing to see what it can do' use-case. @<a href="#comment-8382" rel="nofollow">Inge Wallin</a>: And KOffice (AFAIK) doesn't have half the code in German :) @<a href="#comment-8384" rel="nofollow">jstaniek</a>: Without any intention to dismiss anyone's work, Kexi isn't on my radar at all, and I don't really care about its UI. With that said, the current Kexi's UI (I've just started the trunk version) is not completely like the one proposed for OOo. It still takes the same space as the menus + toolbar did, and not more. p.s. It was fun to remember what the Oxygen looked like in 2007 :) @Erlend: Looks really don’t enter into it. It takes too much of the workspace. And the /discoverability/ in this case is going to inspire the users to produce inconsistent documents by using the styles even less than they used to do before.

When editing a document, the focus should always be on the document and its contents, later on its looks, and never on the program in which you work.

The ribbon is perfect for the ‘lets play with this thing to see what it can do’ use-case.

@Inge Wallin: And KOffice (AFAIK) doesn’t have half the code in German :)

@jstaniek: Without any intention to dismiss anyone’s work, Kexi isn’t on my radar at all, and I don’t really care about its UI.

With that said, the current Kexi’s UI (I’ve just started the trunk version) is not completely like the one proposed for OOo. It still takes the same space as the menus + toolbar did, and not more.

p.s. It was fun to remember what the Oxygen looked like in 2007 :)

]]> By: jstaniek http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-8384 jstaniek Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:26:37 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-8384 Hi, I'd like to mention that at least one KOffice app implements parts of the this kind of the GUI, e.g. see http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:Uv29sVU8l40J:www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2955 (mirrored) Hi, I’d like to mention that at least one KOffice app implements parts of the this kind of the GUI, e.g. see http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:Uv29sVU8l40J:www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2955 (mirrored)

]]> By: Inge Wallin http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-8382 Inge Wallin Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:03:40 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-8382 The interesting thing is that if we *wanted* to do a GUI like that, we could do it with less than 1/10th of the resources that OOo has to put into it. Their toolkit doesn't even have a layout manager, so everything has to be placed by hand. The interesting thing is that if we *wanted* to do a GUI like that, we could do it with less than 1/10th of the resources that OOo has to put into it. Their toolkit doesn’t even have a layout manager, so everything has to be placed by hand.

]]> By: Erlend http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-8380 Erlend Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:01:12 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-8380 i actually think this looks much better than the menu-driven office suits we have now. it certainly helps discoverability and makes it easier for us who don't use an office suite every day. for power-users, i guess the menus will still be present. i really wish they would move the controls to the left or the right of the work area, though. most document editing is done in portrait mode. i actually think this looks much better than the menu-driven office suits we have now. it certainly helps discoverability and makes it easier for us who don’t use an office suite every day. for power-users, i guess the menus will still be present.

i really wish they would move the controls to the left or the right of the work area, though. most document editing is done in portrait mode.

]]> By: Ivan Čukić http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/08/04/koffice-needs-you-and-we-need-koffice/comment-page-1/#comment-8379 Ivan Čukić Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:40:15 +0000 http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/?p=584#comment-8379 @<a href="#comment-8377" rel="nofollow">Dion Moult</a>: Yes, exactly. The proposed /new/ UI is really scaring me (like the majority of the commenters on the linked page) @Dion Moult: Yes, exactly. The proposed /new/ UI is really scaring me (like the majority of the commenters on the linked page)

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